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Hello, everybody. This is the big homemade conversations. Thank you so much for tuning in. My name is Kelly, and I'm here with my co host Ashley, as usual. And we have got another really great conversation for you today. We have been back and forth a little bit ourselves on the idea of kind of behind limiting beliefs. So we're going to kind of be chatting today about the idea that
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And we get all these beliefs, they come at us from all the various different influences and stuff that we experience in our lives. And quite often they get cemented in our heads as fact. And a massive part of getting into home education and to become a really great home educator is to be doing the self work to really dismantle a lot of the beliefs that we've had, possibly from our parents, absolutely from our school days.
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But all the other societal beliefs and stuff that don't serve us as well, the ones that constantly have a second guessing ourselves, constantly making us worry about the way we home educate, what we're doing, how we're parenting, the relationship we have with our kids, how we want them to feel about themselves. I think that it's such a huge thing that I'm very passionate about as somebody who does obviously mentor and coach.
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parents who do home educate, obviously as they are kind of really trying to shake this stuff off, because it really messes with your head. When you're trying to make a decision about how you're going to handle something, like you can get so lost in these conflicting opinions that are kind of like wafting around your head that make you think that that is real. And that's what everybody's expecting of you, or that's what is fact and should happen. And that's not necessarily true at all.
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that's kind of what we're chatting about today. And I think it's hopefully going to be a really good one. So first and foremost, obviously saying hello to Ashley, so you actually know she's here, because I always do this, I just like, with her on for ages. So hello, Ashley, how are you today? Hi. Good. Good. Yes, making it through the week. Yeah, as always, we're just like...
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We're both sat here going, Oh my goodness, it's late and we must stop recording these in the evenings. But when is any other time that we'll be able to do this? Yeah. We're gonna have to start booking like proper like podcast days when we can just hang out somewhere that's got like soundproofing would be great. Okay, so the thing I wanted to share first and foremost, we're talking about this idea that we have these conflicting things going on in our heads sometimes.
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And that can be really, really stressful when we're trying to make changes and we're trying to be better parents and to do things differently to how generations before did it. And we have these irritating beliefs swimming around in our heads. And I found myself thinking that we can actually end up really tying ourselves in knots. And I actually did this to myself recently. I took my kids to Lego land. They both had a chunk of money to spend. And could I stop myself from constantly intervening?
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with what they wanted to spend it on, could I heck like it was so frustrating. I was literally chatting away to them about what they wanted to get, trying to frame what I think would be the best option, trying to divert them away from the plastic tat, trying to focus their attention on something that they get the maximum amount of time out of enjoyment out of that keep them busy for hours. Like, I really was being conscious of not doing that. But yet somehow found myself doing it.
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over and over and over again, just little comments and little things that kind of... And you can look at it from one perspective where like one side of me, like one side of this kind of viewpoint basically is that they are having the trust in themselves eroded, that they're not able to trust their own opinions, that they can't have their own ideas, then you've maybe got the fact that they are obviously going to be prioritizing me and my opinions and what I want over themselves.
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that they're not doing what makes them happy. And those are not great things. Like, I don't want them thinking that like ever. But actually, you've also got the other side of it, the flip side, that's me trying to teach them value. It's trying to help them understand that money only goes so far. And if we're going to spend it, we should spend it on something that's really going to make a difference, it's really going to make us happy.
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And actually, we do want them to go out into the world one day as grownups and be able to say, Hey, I want to buy a house, but that's overpriced. Like, or I'm working really, really hard here and I'm putting in 20 extra hours a week and I'm not getting any more money. So I know that I'm worth better than this. Like, we need them to understand value and to compare that with the cost of things and all the rest of it. Like that's important. So I actually tied myself in knots. I was like, am I teaching them good values right now? Like, am I actually teaching them life skills?
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and actually my input is important in this? Or am I actually causing issues and hang ups around money, around enjoyment of just spending and having some fun spending some money? Like, why can't I just let them enjoy this? Like, why can't I just let them just have this freedom to just go nuts? Spend it on whatever you like, enjoy it, don't like if it goes in the bin in two weeks, oh great, great, it's annoying, but nevermind. Like, where is all this coming from? Like, where is this?
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stress coming from around money, like it's really interesting, the beliefs and the strange thoughts that are running through my head. But it happens around things that aren't just money related to right. If we were talking the other day about clothing, and having that, like allowing the kids to have autonomy and being able to choose what they want to wear, and being able to wear something that they like that makes them feel good and confident and they really enjoy.
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matching things that don't always match necessarily by like a societal standard. But again, is that something that I wanna push? Do I wanna say that is a lovely outfit that you put together, but it doesn't actually go. And if you walk around wearing the panda suit, you're gonna be looked at and someone might make a comment, right? But at their age, it's...
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anyone that sees me walking around with someone dressed, or a child dressed a little differently, is going to know that they chose their own clothes that day. There's not gonna be a question. But are we allowing them that freedom to kind of develop their own sense of style, their own sense of what they like, what they feel confident in? But if we do that, am I then robbing them from the...
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reality or not necessarily robbing them, but kind of taking away an opportunity to show them that how you dress is important. Maybe not in every scenario, but certainly if you show up at a job interview not dressed appropriately, or if you have a job and you show up to work not dressed appropriately as deemed by the workplace environment that you're in, the company you work for, that is something that could be a problem, that could draw attention to yourself in a negative way,
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you know, our society is judgmental. They make snap decisions, it's human nature. You see someone, you make a decision based on that vision before they even speak to you. And so if you, we want our intelligent children, our wonderful children to be viewed as such, and we don't want any blockers in their way preventing that from happening before they've even had a chance to prove themselves. And so that is the conflict there too, right? It's like, well,
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At what point do I say, you know, if you wear that, you might be judged, but then is that the natural consequence we want them to have? Maybe they don't care. Maybe they're already strong enough in themselves that they don't care if someone doesn't like the frilly skirt with the sequins top and the, you know, UGG boots that they put on or whatever. Or, you know, is it something where, you know, we want to prevent them from having that negative experience altogether?
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Like, are we shielding them from that? And they should actually have the opportunity to experience some pushback from others and be able to say, well, you know what? I actually don't care what you think. I'm happy with what I chose. It's hard. And that's the back and forth, right? And I think, I know some parents say, like, you can wear whatever you want in the house. When we go out, I get to decide. And some parents say, you can only ever wear.
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certain things or they put the wardrobes together that completely match so that no matter what the child chooses, they're not going to be able to create something. But again, all these different options, if they work for your family, that's wonderful. And I think that's the point that I guess we're trying to make is you have to kind of consider all of these components and decide what is important to you and what are you going to move forward with for your kids? Because that's
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It's hard. It's so important. And it's really recognizing that it's, it's partly your own lived experience. It's recognizing what is the right thing for you, your family, how you believe things should be done, how you believe we should show up in the world and like how we should, what we should care about and what is important. And, um, like I know, for example, as somebody who is in a bigger body, um,
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I have always been overweight, like based on based on the term overweight fat, whatever you want to refer to it as. This is something that I have had since I was three, four years old, and spent most of my childhood being commented on, weighed, measured, criticized, put on diets, having having what food was available to me controlled, being told that I wasn't good enough being told that it was
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a lack of willpower that I was lazy, that I was like all these horrible things to be telling a child. But also as an adult, like it doesn't matter when you experience these things. All it does is feed into this idea that you are in some way not good enough and that actually you are not valuable, they're not worthy, that your experience isn't valid, your feelings are not valid.
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you were supposed to care what other people think, that you're supposed to punish yourself, you're supposed to get yourself into a smaller body. It's inconsiderate of you not to, right? So all this shame and criticism, like this, and that's just my weight. Then you throw in like the judgmental kind of comments you get around anything else, like your intelligence, your how much you talk, like.
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there are so many influences that I've had and not all negative, like this is not all just literally saying that we've, we've all had all these negative thoughts come into our heads, and we just don't want to perpetuate them. Some things are really like, innocuous, if that's the right word, like really kind of like inane, small things, stuff like, for example, eating three meals a day. So this is where de-scrolling is really fascinating because, and like belief, limiting belief, and just shifting.
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beliefs, because the fact that society kind of pushes in our direction is that we're supposed to sit and eat three meals a day, like we are encouraged to ensure that we're having these great table rituals with our children that we're really positive about setting up good food habits, and all this stuff, right? Like, there is some orchestrated, it has to look a certain way, it has to be a certain way for it to be okay. And actually,
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idea of three meals a day isn't really very natural for human bodies. That most people will know if they've done any kind of work into intuitive eating, actually, we tend to be more grazers, we will eat little some days, lots others, we will have cravings for certain things at certain times of our hormonal cycles. And that actually, that's really normal, and something which we should lean into very, very happily, that there's an awful lot of
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questioning that goes into my brain anyway around meals, I don't always want three meals a day. Sometimes I actually want one decent meal and then a couple of other little snacky things through the day, like, and my kids will go some days they'll barely eat a thing. Some days they will devour massive meals, some days they will want lots of snacks. So this is like all of this stuff. This is really a name. This is this is seemingly tiny. This is just like, why do we believe that we should have three meals a day? Where does that come from?
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Well, I came from the fact that people literally had to eat at home, then they went to a job where a massive company of some description dictated the terms of how you lived your life, the hours you worked the time you had for breaks, like you were told that you had a lunch break, and that's when you ate. And then you had to wait until you could get home for your dinner. And so three meals a day just simply became part of a necessity of a way of life because
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that was the lifestyle that people were given. And in so many cases, it's only very recent that we've traveled and we see lots of different people's ideals and viewpoints and can question our culture like this is actually a really recent thing that we've had this ability to do this. Like, if you watch episodes, I'm still talking about the Derry girls the other day was basically a community of women that worked around clothing factories and they literally every single woman in a family.
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worked in that factory, you finish school and you went to work in the factory. And that was just life. That's what life was. There was no imagination of anything different. That was just what it is. And so that belief that when you grow up, it doesn't matter how smart you are, whether like you don't have any ambitions beyond that, because that's just what we're going to do. And so it's just really fascinating, I think, when we can think about actually, okay, we've got so much choice now. And we don't have to
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eat three solid meals a day when we're home educating because actually, we have got that time and that flexibility in our day to do things differently. And we can adapt based on what makes sense for us. And so there's some things which are like that, where it's just us. And it's just our feelings. And it's just our relationship with our kids. And they're sometimes the easier ones to kind of pick apart and deal with. But then when you get into the bigger
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overarching ones like you're saying about things like clothing and caring about what other people think and what like having that resilience to cope with societal BS that's out there that's going to come at them. Like they're gonna get it, they're gonna get messages about their bodies, they're gonna get messages about their clothing. They're gonna get messages about what that means about them, what they're, how smart are they if they're happy, if they're wearing a mini skirt, like all this nonsense, we know it happens, we can't
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avoid it even if we home educate, there's no way we're getting away from it completely. They are going to experience some of this stuff. So we have got to help prepare them for what judgment might be out there in a very clever way. And so this is, this is hard. This is not always easy. And this is something which can tie us in knots. It can get us quite stressed out. And I guess the point of this episode is really to kind of just drive home that idea that
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we are human and we've got all these different thoughts and feelings and we're gonna have to work through this stuff. Like there is no other way than through. And sometimes that can feel really icky. And I mean, we were sort of saying earlier about the idea of like, can you think of any moments from your school days? Like, is there anything in particular that you can remember from your school days beliefs or ideals or influences you've had which have lasted which have been really like detrimental to your home ed experience?
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Yeah, I mean, I just think that the idea of furthering your education, and I know we've talked about this before, but at least just in the States, it just is such an indicator of your success and your intelligence. You know, only stupid people don't go to college, right? Only people that can't intellectually get in would ever not go.
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And there's this whole world of skills and traits that come that you don't need college for, right? And I think that there was just this belief that even as a younger person, my friends and I have talked about this at nausea, just about how we were so drilled in us to go to school that even as younger children like
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before we were in middle school or high school, you just knew you were going to college. Like that was just, that was the end goal that you were spending all this time working for. So forget being present and living in the moment and enjoying education for the sake of education. You just had to reach that goal. And I think that that's something that even now you see, at least I've definitely seen a lot of individuals who want to home ed, but don't know if they should because how do we do exams?
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How do we prepare them for college? How do we prepare them for the SATs? What does that look like? And if I don't put them in the school system, they're not gonna be successful because they won't be able to do those things. And we know that that's not true at all. And there's plenty of people that are doing that and their children are pursuing careers through that path. And in fact, plenty of them are going earlier. And then...
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than the students that are in the traditional schooling system because they're just at that level sooner. But that's definitely something that we look at constantly in my family because one of the things that we are, I would say we don't, we sort of blended approach to home ed, but we definitely are not unschoolers. And we definitely are not leaving loosely.
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pretty consciously following the curriculum, the guidelines that are set for each grade level. At least we might throw some out. We might say, okay, no, that's not, we're not doing that. But I'm at least consciously aware of that. And whether we're replacing it with something else or whatever, we're checking all the boxes for those kind of core requirements.
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The reason that we do that is because if my children ever did say that they really felt passionately that they wanted to go back to school, and I think this is not a podcast topic. I don't know if I've let them, but I want to say that I would if that was something they really wanted to do. And they felt like that was the right approach for them. We would then do that. And I would want them to be able to do that confidently and without having to be...
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dropped a grade or feel like they're the stupidest person in the class or I don't mean that's like a harsh word but just feel unprepared for the class I guess I should say. I don't want them I don't want to open them up to bullying for being like that homeschool kit you know and then I certainly want them to be able to take a test that they might want to take or an exam that they might want to take or you know if something happens financially in our family and I have to go back to work because I have to.
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Right. I want that door to stay open. And so that is something that is definitely hard to step away from. And when I see other families that are just basically saying, we don't follow that belief, it is not something we're subscribing to. And we are moving in this direction. And here are all the reasons why I am definitely envious of the ability to let it go.
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because that is just something I don't ever see happening for our family. And I think that would be lovely. And I've done a ton of research, as everyone has, I feel like these days into unschooling and deschooling and what that means and why they're doing it. And it makes so much sense to me. It's just something that I do think that is just, that belief for us is hard to overcome, for better or for worse.
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So I completely hear you. I was really academic in school and I had. I have, I still have a part of me that sits there going, well, I want my kids to be successful, like I want them to experience success, whatever that looks like for them. And I do genuinely have that overarching, like whatever it looks like for them, as long as they are safe. Loved.
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held, like, having a future that feels good to them, that they're, that they're on a career path that makes sense, whatever. Like, if they're happy, great. But I want them to be able to be happy. Like, I don't want them to grow up and be, like, not be able to read, not be able to go and get any job at all, like, not be able to follow any instructions. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, there's- Exactly.
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and forth, back and forth, like tying yourself in knots, like, am I being too strict? No, I'm not being strict enough. Oh, I'm being too strict. No, I'm not being strict enough. And it's hilarious. Like, it was just brilliant being a parent anyway, right? And yeah, like this is the tricky part. Like, what I try and get across to people that think that being a home educator means that you are, you've got it all figured out that you're like a perfect parent, that you're amazing, that you have chickens and you bake bread and you
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are perfectly gentle and calm all the time and you never lose your temper and you absolutely have it all perfect. And your kids are gonna you're like you think that you're some sort of superior, amazing, like, I don't know, like you become the most happy, successful people on the planet. And honestly, I, I know that I will mess my kids up, just like every other parent misses their kids up something they will hate me for. Absolutely, they will like, there's no chance at all that any of us are going to get out.
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parenting unscathed with some sort of frustration, or I wish you did more of this or I wish you did more of that. Like I am, I saw a really great, a really other day with a lady who's saying about how she was forced to sit down and have family dinners every night, forced to sit and have family time for dinner every night. And that she desperately craves eating alone as an adult. I very rarely had the opportunity to have
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family dinners until we were a bit older, like when my parents were in my teens, they both were now working one sensible job and we were able to kind of come together and eat dinner together. And actually, those became the best memories because we actually got to have those family dinners. And so now as a parent, I am really grateful for every single evening that we get to sit around the table and actually have dinner together as a family. And it's so fascinating how, like,
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two different people, two different lived experiences have a like, no, I'm not going to force that on my kids. Because that didn't feel good to me. And so this, again, it's just a belief. It's just a feeling. It's just an something has made them feel that way. Something has made me feel the way I do. And again, this is one of those lovely easy ones. It's an inane belief. It's one of those things. It's just something which you can decide just what feels good, like
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are we enjoying it? Does is this a nice part of our day? Should we have family dinners or not? We seem to enjoy it and all enough. So yeah, why not? Like for the most part, I would like to sit around the table together. But actually, we don't have to every night. And that's cool, too. Like whatever, right, you can choose and you can make it make sense for your family. And I think that the problem with stuff like that is we maybe have this social idea that you're supposed to sit together and have a family dinner that if you're not doing that, then you're not a good enough family.
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And so
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not because somebody else's opinion, but because of you. That's what we have to be looking for. And it's every single one of those moments. And that's what can be really exhausting about it. This is something which I seem to quite enjoy as a process in myself, like I enjoy hunting for these things. But not everybody would and not everybody does. And sometimes it can actually feel very tiring. But I do think that it's an essential part of how you're going to build your ethos, because I've been able to say the...
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coming back to the academic side of things, we are probably closer to unschooling than a curriculum following strict, not strict, but sorry, maybe not quite the right word. We're definitely not strict. Not the word. But we're we are definitely more towards unschooling. But since Christmas, we put into place a fridge tick list system that
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simply just has the list of it has it you get reading, comprehension, spelling, writing, maths, science, learner skill, bit of gardening, bit of cooking. Like we did it together. We put a few, I would say essential school bits on there. And then a bunch of stuff they wanted to be able to do every week. And then obviously, and the idea is that tick list represents 15 minutes spent on that thing.
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So it's a super low bar. It's not adding loaded pressure. It's not saying that we've got to have done 10 hours of reading a week or any nonsense like that. But it just allows me to a ask the Am I good enough voice that loves to rear its ugly head every possible day of the week. That makes me think have I done enough work? Have I done enough with the kids? Have I done enough housework? Am I a good enough wife? Am I a good enough mother? That voice needed to be needed to be made quiet. And so this tick list
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isn't for the kids. It's for me to just reflect at the end of a day and to go, Oh, okay, yeah, because we did this and we did that. And we did this. And so actually, we've, we've, like knocked out part of the day, like, we've actually ticked a load of stuff off the list. This is over the course of a week. So there's no strict schedule, no nothing. But it's just literally, if we can do it all great, if we miss something, oh, well, like, it's just for me, it's a point of reflection. It's just a chance to check in and to say, Yeah, okay, we've had a pretty good week. And
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ultimately, having just a little bit of structure for me, as somebody who does have ADHD as well, and I do can tend to resist structure and all that jazz, just help me to relax and to know that we have done really well. And considering I find consistency so difficult, we're mid March, late March almost. And actually, we've stuck to it. We've done it every single week since.
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And that is massive for me that to actually notice that we're doing that. And actually my son sometimes will go and look at it and go, what haven't we done yet this week? Oh, we haven't done maths. Okay. Can I go in, can I go and do elephant maths on my computer? Like, yeah, yeah. Look yourself out. Like, and actually he does, he's starting to take some ownership of it and finds it quite fun. And especially if we finish it, like if we actually get all of it, I'm just like, yes, high five kid, like we've had an awesome week, like we've done loads. He's feeling that reward from it too. Um,
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But as again, this is beliefs, this is just like, for some people, it's super important for them to have structure, because it's going to make them feel relaxed. For some people, the idea of structure is hell, and they'd much rather be free and outside never thinking about whether they've done any writing or English or reading or anything ever. And that's also fine. And I'm starting to respect it more and more as I as more reading I do, the more I understand that the ideals
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of unschooling, of complete child-led learning, and allowing them to have that complete freedom and autonomy over their learning, simply allows us to kind of come back to being human. And that innate curiosity, that innate interest and drive that is just fascinating, like it is just amazing. And I think we can't discount sometimes the fact that we have wisdom.
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and we have lived experience, and we have things that we want to pass down to them. And that's not a bad thing. Like we have things that we care about things that are really important to us, like that might be an actual faith, like you may you may be religious, and you may have cultural values that really mean something to you that they actually really represent heritage and things that are really important. And again, looking for the damaging looking for the racist looking for the
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non accepting, of course. But actually, there are definitely things here that that might feel important just because just because they are just important to you. But yeah, it's just recognizing where all these influences we've had school parents, outside society, current modern day stuff in your childhood, whatever it is, we've really just got to be noticing, we just have to ask the question if we believe something.
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and we feel like it's a fact, we feel like it's a truth, is to then go wait, okay, but is it? Am I actually correct in thinking that that we have to sit down and eat dinner as a family around the table? Or we're not a great family? Well, no, that's silly. Like, do I really believe that my kid will never ever get a job? Okay, they turn up to interviews, dresses, all kind of random things. Maybe
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But that's a natural consequence. And eventually they are going to recognise that they can't turn up to address as a panda and expect to get a job. It's up to them. Like if they want to take it seriously, and they want to get something and it's important to them, I feel like they will want to know what the best attire is to impress someone and to get them to see them as a serious person who's taking that moment seriously, right? Like, we're going to see that change in them. And we just kind of I guess we have to trust.
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And I guess that's what the point of unschooling is in my head. When I say we're almost unschooling is to just have that trust. We don't necessarily have to get rid of all of our beliefs, but some of them are going to filter through whether we like it or not. Um, but we can gently shape and we can gently structure based on what makes sense for us as a family. Yeah. It makes sense for us.
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and it makes sense for them. And hopefully they will push back on my beliefs too. Because if I can teach them to challenge my beliefs, if they do have different ones to me, that might make for a very stressful. Yeah, but it's like, oh, just listen to me and don't ever question me, but also always question me. I know it's that battle, right? But yeah, I mean, it's building awareness too, right?
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they're able to have the ability to make those choices for themselves, obviously age appropriate within reason, all of that, like you said. It just helps to also, again, build that awareness and allow for them to recognize that other people will have different beliefs, other people will have different priorities, and to hopefully not judge them based on those, but to...
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you know, understand that they came from a certain place. And certainly if there are, you know, things in their own lives that they want to weed out for their next, for the next generation, that that's, that's something that they can do. And it's so funny, you were talking about earlier, how, you know, no one's getting out of this unscathed. And it made me think of this thing I heard that was saying, even if you are the perfect
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perfect children. They're just not able to be because they're figuring it all out. They're growing, right? They're becoming who they are. So you can be the most perfect parent, but you will never have a perfect child who just does everything exactly perfectly. And so you're always going to have a bit of back and forth, that conflict, that kind of butting of heads every now and again.
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and having to like, gently guide them, like you said, into a certain direction or another, it's just, it's gonna be how it is. And so you just have to do the best with the information you have available to you at that time. But like you said, consciously being aware of things and even, you know, questioning where did this belief that I have come from? Like, is this something that I still wanna carry with me or is it something that I can let go or at the very least not pass on? So, yeah, it's hard.
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I think it's amazing and I think we will and we will continue to do it and I think ultimately I believe the best parents on the planet are the ones who are noticing they're messing up, they're doing the wrong thing, they're saying the wrong thing, they're recognising down the line maybe years even later that something that they believed or something that they pushed or whatever wasn't right and they're apologising for it.
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or they're making changes, and they're trying to do things differently. And I think ultimately, as long as we are conscious, and I think this is where I love I really quite like the phrase conscious parenting, like I'm definitely not able to always be fully in the gentle parenting zone, but I am consciously parenting and I am consciously apologizing and dealing with my rubbish moments. And equally recognizing that actually
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you say perfection is not something that we'll ever strive for but there's a scale and I've got to be honest like if we really want to place ourselves on it in terms of where we are aiming to be and where we probably already are like we probably should be giving ourselves a lot more credit and I think those of you listening if you've done any of this work here if you're ever conscious of your beliefs and the things that you maybe feel are limiting you or stopping you from being happy.
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or changing how your day looks to make you feel good. Like if you're doing any of the work to deal with that stuff, and to be starting to kind of just build a routine and a lifestyle and day to day that makes sense for you, and makes you happy in even small ways, like getting a better brand of coffee even like if you're doing something that feels good, and you're doing that intentionally, then you are so much better a parent than you can possibly imagine.
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just for doing that. So a little bit of love going out to you all. As I know, this can be really triggering and really, really hard. So yeah, have some faith, I guess, in yourself and just keep trying. Just keep doing it. Keep noticing. Yeah, I can say really. That's good. All right, guys. Well, thank you so much for listening again. My Instagram is off.
36:54
at offr I can't even say it now. And Ashley is at home So do come and follow us, come and talk to us. Come and tell us how you felt after listening to this episode, what came up for you. Because we want to have that interaction with you guys, we'd love to hear what it made you think about and whether it's helped to shift anything or make you think a bit. So do come and tell us. And hopefully, we'll speak to you again next week.
37:23
Take care guys, bye. Bye.
