00:00
Welcome back to another episode of The Big Home Ed Conversations. This is a podcast where we are talking all things home ed, but also some other random side notes as well. This week's a bit more of a fun musing about the past, present and not so far in the future, future that we think could be utterly incredible. Like we're just I've been reading a book that's been making me think about a lot. So.
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Obviously, as usual, I am Kelly and I'm joined by my co-host, Ashley. Say hello, Ashley. Hello. We're just having a bit of a giggle. As usual, had a week. It's interesting, both of us have been reading books with our kids this week about certain oceans. We were talking about the Indian Ocean, which we were laughing about the fact that my two literally just interrupt me every other word with fantastic insights and interesting questions. And it is...
00:56
The most amazing thing, honestly, they are so far from sit quietly on bottoms listening to someone read a book that it is actually funny. And not funny sunlight. So it depends on your mood, I suppose. But you said you were learning about the Arctic Ocean with your two at swimming. Yeah, so while my youngest was having her swim lesson, I was with the two older girls, and we're trying to tackle like each ocean. So we had a book with us about the Arctic Ocean, which I was reading to them.
01:25
And we were on the page talking about the animals that you'll find and kind of the food chain. So how, you know, it all who eats what, who eats who. And obviously the top of the food chain is the polar bear. And it was talking about some of the characteristics and particularly the small ears to help them stay warm. And I was saying, Oh, can you think of an animal that has really big ears so that it helps them to stay cool?
01:54
And they were like, oh, the elephant. And I was like, yeah. And can you think about why that helps cool them? And they're like, no. And I'm like, okay, well, right now we're in like your classic indoor pool. And as with any swim lesson, it is so hot. I'm like sitting in a tank top, even though it's freezing outside, because I'm just.
02:14
so incredibly hot and uncomfortable in the swim lesson. I hate sitting there and telling my kids how bad their swimming lessons is, it's just horrible. And at the end you have to like change them and dress them. And I'm like, I need like a shower after it's awful. And so I'm already like, yeah, I'm like so hot. And I was like, okay, well, let's look at our, at the backs of our hands and like, what do you notice? Do you see how your veins are very close to the surface and they're like.
02:41
Yeah. And I'm like, okay, so like, you know, look at my hand. Do you know like why that is? Why are veins? We can see them so well. And just my, my middle daughter looks at me and goes, because you're old. I was like, what? No, it's because it's hot. You little animal. I mean, that's not what I said, but that's definitely what was in my mind. I'm pretty sure that like first initial what definitely came out though. I was like, no.
03:11
But I'm glad you're comfortable to be honest. I think there's so many great conversations where there wasn't there. And I mean, yeah, my youngest is usually the funniest for it, to be honest, because she's four and she's always off in her own little crazy world anyway. But she definitely comes out with some crackers these days that do legit stop me in my tracks. My son, I'm not sure where he's heard it recently, but I'm terrible for saying things like, oh my God, all the time and I'm terrible, I shouldn't do it.
03:41
But he the other day said something on the lives of like, oh my Thor. I was like, have you switched out God for Thor? Like as in Thor the God? And he goes, yeah. I was just like, I love it. I literally love it. Well, they come out with some real random stuff, don't they sometimes? But we were chatting before. And essentially I've been reading a book or listening to a book. I listen to books.
04:10
by Ken Robinson, so it's out of our minds. And I've only just started it, but there's got the first couple of chapters are really interesting. And he was talking about how, when you actually kind of like condense human history into the space of like minutes instead of years, that so much has happened in the last 30 seconds. Literally, we have gone from being chariots and spears to sitting on iPhones.
04:40
in the blink of an eye. And it's, he was basically just trying to explain like, he went and spoke to Queen Victoria and told her that 30 years after she died, or exactly, I'm not sure on the exact amount of years, I should probably have double checked that before I said this. But he was saying like, literally a few years after First World War, basically, the British Empire would no longer be that it would now be a Commonwealth and that they would disband the title Empire.
05:08
Um, should have laughed in your face, but literally within a generation, it had changed. Ultimately, so much changes that fast, like so, so fast that we just can't even comprehend it. This actually leads into another conversation about how we don't have a real concept of like time passing in history. Like, because people
05:35
Look at things like, isn't it something like Martin Luther King and Anne Frank lived at the same time? But like, do you equate them to be of the same? No. Like I think of Anne Frank like years before, like they're, so it's so interesting, like, and I think this kind of is like a tribute to the educational system. Like how do we not have a better grasp of like that actual timeline?
06:01
And like we learn things in little pockets and then they exist in pockets in our mind. And there is this funny story about, I mean, I, this blows my mind, but there was a woman who like posted on Instagram, like, like on her own page, like, I recognize that this is something that I feel like an idiot, but I honestly thought this was true. She thought Alaska was in the middle of the ocean.
06:29
That's how they show it like on a US map because they can't fit it so high up. And I'm like, wait, what? Like, how does that happen? But it's like, you're never given the full, it's never brought up a level to like show the whole overarching concept. So we just have these little bits of information.
06:54
And there's no like overarching thing tying it together. So anyway, yeah, that's one of the things like we do is keep a history timeline. And I love going in. We're not actually all that good at it. We have, I have to be more diligent, but like whenever we find something, I'm like, okay, put it on our timeline because then you see the other things that we already have in the population. Oh, that is so interesting. So yeah, like I, if you asked me when I'm Queen Victoria, I would have said. Way before 1900, like I thought like, all right, but I was 17. Like I, I couldn't even have told you like, but that's also American versus.
07:24
you know, any other European. I mean, that's true as well, right? That's when we've got to kind of really think about our kids' education and the fact that obviously in America, they're primarily going to get American history. In the UK, they're primarily going to get British. In Australia, they're primarily going to get British and Australian. Literally, we have to remember, and this is kind of what this episode is really about, that ultimately we have all these different bits of information.
07:54
that we could be learning about, that we could look back and we could learn more about the past, we could look to the future and we can imagine what could be coming next. And ultimately, learn what we can learn and we can do what we want to do with our kids. But the school curriculum, like as it comes, was kind of put into place, I believe it was in the 90s. So it's literally had about 30 years or so. And obviously, it does evolve a little bit.
08:23
So we have had like coding has been introduced. I know they're now offering British Sign Language. Sometimes it's an optional GCSE that schools can teach. So there are changes that happen, but let's be honest, it hasn't changed very much from what we would have experienced if we sat in a school apart from there's more exams now. Like we wouldn't have sat year two SATs, but stuff has changed, but let's be honest, not very much. And ultimately,
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we wanted to talk about what has changed in those 30 years. Like what is different now in 2024 compared to 1990-ish. Like I was born in 89, so I literally was a young child through the nineties. And obviously aside from like music changing, stuff like that.
09:20
I know that when I was a teenager, I carried around a CD player in my pocket. That was that was the level we're at. If I had a mobile phone, I think I was about 14 when I finally got a mobile phone. Finally, I say finally, probably teenagers now would say finally, then I was just like, I feel like that was really advanced. Yeah, mobile phone. But obviously, it was a really simple, like little tiny brick that you had to tap each number several thousand times to get a letter. Right.
09:47
like 10 quid credit for texting would just disappear in a flash, whereas now I can literally have a three hour video call with my sister in America for free. And just it blows one off free, I suppose you pay for your contract. But aside from that, like I pay like eight quid a month. Literally, I could call wherever I want for as long as I want. I mean, that's insane. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I was gonna say even that is like amazing because cell phone contracts in the states are
10:17
They're just way more expensive than they are here. So you would pay like 40 or $50 a month for your cell phone contract. At least now I'm probably dating myself because I haven't lived there. But the last time I got a contract was a couple years ago because my Italian phone didn't work there. And I had like my contract over there didn't have like a roaming plan. And so I had to get like a local one. And I wanna say it was at least 30 bucks. Yeah.
10:46
So I mean, it's so much nicer over here. That's one of the few lower cost items. This is the thing, right? So like even just showing my age had a little flicker of it. Oh, well, I suppose it's a bigger country. So it's, it's more cell towers and stuff to maintain. And then my brain was like, no, silly. It's all on satellites now, like things that was around the planet up in the sky, like, come on, get with the times. So I think this is the thing, right? So like, we all have gaps in our education. We all have things that we believed as adults.
11:16
that turned out to be nonsense. We've all had complete lack of understanding of timelines and like grasping the idea, as you say, that Queen Victoria actually died in 1901 is just insanity to me, insanity. Like really, that recently? Like that's bonkers. And we just don't have this concept of time that we should have, but actually, these like everything that happened with Hitler and Germany was not that long ago. Like...
11:44
It's just crazy, right? So this obviously very much kind of ties in with obviously the way the world is today and the situations that are unfolding. And I think it's really important for our kids to recognise that the timeline isn't actually as vast as it's made out to be. And I guess as children, the concept of time feels so long. As we get older, because we're storing less memories, time feels more condensed. It's a bit like a compression.
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thing, like, you know, like when you compress a file, some of the data, so it just doesn't feel that long. I'm just like, Oh, that's sad. Like, that's sad. So like, you've experienced it the same length as you did as a child. But as a child, you're you're remembering so much that actually it feels like a really long time between things happening. Which I just thought was a really fun fact. But random and off tangent. But what can I do? This is me.
12:42
So yeah, so this idea that we could imagine, so when we're kind of thinking more about us as children, what did you imagine the future would look like? Like, did you have any concept of what the future would be? Like things that would be around now? Yeah, I don't think I thought too much about the society and what technology or anything like that. I think we all had visions of maybe like,
13:08
what we saw in like Back to the Future or like Star Wars or something like that. But like beyond what we saw in a movie, or maybe like what we read about in a book, I never really gave it like too much thought. I was more thinking about like, what would I do? Like, am I going to be, you know, a doctor? Am I going to be a teacher? Am I going to be living in a house? Will I have kids? Will I...
13:37
choose to not have kids. I think it was more of that kind of a, like, will I travel? Those mentalities not very much around, I guess I didn't envision there being enough of a shift. And that's just, I think, the naivety of a kid, right? I just never thought there would be that much of a shift that I would have to think about.
14:07
I certainly never imagined like the internet becoming what it is. I certainly never imagined having a computer in my pocket. I never like, you know, I always think back to the teachers in math class that would be like, what are you going to do? Walk around with a calculator in your pocket. And it's like, yeah, I actually am. Like, you know, and they certainly never imagined that we were going to do that. Right.
14:34
So the calculator in our pocket is invented by someone who really wanted to put some fingers up at that teacher, isn't it? I mean, like, seriously, they're like, you know what, I got this. Yeah. So I mean, I think I was definitely thinking more, just about my own future and like, you know, what that would look like, and not very much about how the culture and society evolving would impact that future.
15:02
And that I think was just something I never, I don't know if it's that I never thought it myself and that's something to be said about me or if it's more also like we just were never taught to think about change in that way. And so there are so many, like for example, I know I really wanted to go to school for photography. That was something I did a lot in high school and I really loved it. And my parents were like, there is no job in this. There is no way to make money in that.
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you will never make money. You will be poor on the street with a ton of student debt if you do that and just completely refuse to even pay for my college or give me anything if I pursue that path. And it's like, they made that decision based on the information they had available to them at that time, which is of course, they don't have a crystal ball. They can't predict the future. They had no idea that we would get to the point where we're posting everything. I mean, I think
15:59
doing me wrong, there are certainly photographers who, I'm sure struggle like in any way. But I think there's obviously a lot of potential for people who are getting into graphic design and all of the photography and the different media options that are out there. You absolutely can pursue a career that could be very fulfilling both personally and professionally and financially. So I think that's the kind of talking about.
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kind of our last conversation around limiting beliefs. That's kind of the thing that I'm trying to keep in mind when we are thinking about the future for our children is like, where can I help them to embrace the change, to consider the change and to prepare them, maybe not for the careers, because we just don't know what that would look like.
16:55
But to give them the skills that they will need just to lean back on while they're trying to navigate that changing landscape, right? How do we equip them to be agile, to be able to fail and come back from that, to dust themselves off and still have the persistence to push forward about a passion that they might have? I think that's kind of what I try to keep in mind. And certainly the way I wish that.
17:24
I had been approached by my parents at that juncture of like, you know, becoming a young adult. So, but it's hard because we just don't know. No. And I think I mean, that's a really great point, that idea of just the lifelong learning, the intrinsic learning, the curiosity, the ability, the ability to find resilience in learning, as you say, that kind of trying something and understanding that we're not good at things the second we do them.
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that it
18:21
So at least we're doing something right. But the noobs thing, so he was like, he basically referred to me trying to do something new and we go and laughed at me and goes, oh, you're such a noob. And like, in a making fun of me kind of way. And I was just like, okay, I get that you're just playing. I said, but actually you're just kind of making, you're making fun of the fact that I'm new to something and I'm learning.
18:48
And I said, how often are you new to something and learning? Do I ever make fun of you for it? Like it's not, we don't make fun of each other for starting. Like it's really, really exciting to start something new. It's really exciting to get it wrong. Like we should be trying things and failing all the time. And actually one of the biggest failings, I think, of our current school system is that we have this really competitive,
19:17
comparative style of teaching where we expect children to always get the answer right. And yes, they know that they work towards it. And I'm not saying that literally a teacher puts addition in front of a reception age child and says, get it right, or you're going to be in trouble. But the sensation of getting an X next to it or the sensation of getting a lower grade from the person sitting next to you or
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Any of those things, any of those feelings that we get from not doing that well at something, yeah, obviously leave us feeling that kind of real fear of it happening again. So then we will hide failings and we will hide making mistakes and we will do everything we can to avoid making them because we don't want to be or whatever. Right. So this
20:10
So there's a few things in what you said that kind of, it's really kind of pinging around my brain. So you've got the fact that we've got this idea of, of children having that kind of limiting sensation around, kind of having that competition, having people kind of expecting things off them, making them not want to make mistakes. So they're not going to put themselves out there and try things that are maybe scary, big, confusing, that nobody is standing there teaching them either. Cause if you're relying on people.
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sitting you down and using your time wisely to learn things that they are telling you. These are the important things you need to know. This is what you have to have in your head before you get out of here because otherwise you won't be able to have a job and take care of yourself. When actually there's a million and one other things that we haven't even imagined yet that they could be investigating and looking into and puzzling about the future and learning and getting ideas but they don't have time for that and they're also waiting for someone to put it in front of them and say you should be learning about this.
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because they're relying at that point. Like they're so used to somebody telling them, this is what you should learn, this is important. We're kind of told that school is going to be the base, the foundation, this is what's enough for them to go out there and be successful. I felt the same way as you did, that sensation of I only really thought about, like, who would I marry one day? Will I meet them? Will you like me?
21:34
am I am I okay in the body I'm in? Am I going to be liked? Like, I really feel like actually the, the messaging that I was receiving as a young adult when you're maybe starting to have enough kind of awareness of all these important cultural things that are going on, like, there's some big stuff going on. I mean, 9-11 happened when I was in secondary school, and then the London bombings and all sorts of stuff has happened. The
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scared me, sure, made me slightly more aware of the world around me. But ultimately, yeah, that individualised competitive, will I meet someone? Will I have babies? Will I be successful? Will I have a career? What will it be? Yeah, was kind of all that really kind of felt important to me then. And I don't actually believe that that's
22:27
a natural stance for a child to take. I mean, maybe some of it, sure. Like we're humans, we're going to want to, for want of a less scientific word, we're going to want to mate, we're going to want to biologically meet our demands that our bodies are giving us. So I'm curious, I'm trying to think like, truly, how much of that is a natural human standpoint and how much of that is caused by the Western society we live in, the type of education we're in.
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asking our children to get through that stops them from actually thinking outside the box, stops them from following those random trains of thought that they do. And like we said in the beginning, sit and read in that book about the Indian Ocean. My goodness. The questions are too many questions about all kinds of random stuff that if they were sat in a room with 30 other kids, they wouldn't have been able to answer, ask, sorry, wouldn't have been able to ask even a fraction of the questions they asked me.
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all of the curiosity there that would have been lost, just gone, because you're not going to remember it 10 minutes later, you answer it in the moment or it's gone. So yeah, it's just, it's an interesting one, isn't it? Like when you try and think, like, what will our kids imagine? Like, what will they see? Yeah. And then, and then based on that too, like, I'm sure there's an indicator in there on their, on their potential future happiness too, right? Like, because I think
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I went through the same thing with 9-11 happened when I was in college. I was studying abroad and when I was studying abroad, the tube line was down because of the bombings and all of that certainly had an impact and it was something I was aware of like you said. But if you think about someone in a different part of the world and they're envisioning their future, maybe they're just thinking like, will I have enough food and water?
24:25
Will I live close enough to a fresh water supply that I won't have to walk really far every day just to collect water? And then if that is something that becomes available to them in the future or to their children in the future, like we do improve on some of the food and water situations around the world in areas that certainly don't, we don't live in those areas. So it's very easy to dismiss that or just to not consider it in our day-to-day life. But if that's something that changes for them,
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then is their happiness going to be deeply impacted by having that like goal met, you know, and here we're thinking like, you know, are we are we going to get married? Are we going to have a family? And are we going to have a home? You know, because I know for a lot of people, that's really important to you know, they lived in a shared living situation where they had multi generations under one roof. And I had friends that just wanted to live on their own and envision having that for their family or
25:24
So it's interesting because I would just be curious like how our children's happiness will be, you know, as I imagine their future, you know, what will their happiness level look like and how does like kind of setting those expectations now, not me, but meaning how did how does their vision of their future impact their happiness by like
25:51
setting and potentially reaching some of those expectations. It's all just very intertwined. I'm probably not articulating this well, but it's interesting to think about. Yeah. Yeah, it is. And I think when you when I consider my kids, and I mean, one of the main driving factors to choose to home educate them was the idea of intrinsic learning is the idea of them getting curious, experiencing the world around them being in the real world seeing
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problems that are happening, hearing about stuff that's going on, having context, having that relevance. And I've had people say to me that they'll be sheltered or that they won't have access to enough information, that they won't spend time with enough different kinds of kids from different backgrounds and different environments and that that will create a difficulty for them in the future.
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because they won't be able to relate or they won't be able to, as you say, envision the solutions to these problems. Like they won't see world hunger as a priority for them to care about. They won't see war as something for them to care about because it's not immediately relevant to them. And I know that everything that's happening right now, obviously with Russia and obviously with Israel as well and all of it, that I have had a lot of moments recently where I have genuinely feared that...
27:20
we're really like we're not safe, no matter where we are, like that things can change on a dime that stuff can happen. I'm trying to trigger anybody's doomsday thoughts. We are literally, things change so drastically and so rapidly that it is almost impossible to imagine what life will look like in 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, like it just the mind boggles. And I mean, I've been enjoying this book about
27:48
all these different incredible technologies and ideas that people are generating that essentially what he was saying was that 100 years ago, people were getting annoyed at children reading, that they got annoyed with them getting lost in imaginary worlds that didn't exist. And they got annoyed with how much time was spent idle, sat with a book in their face. Literally just they were annoyed with it. They thought that it was a waste of time that it was unimportant that they shouldn't be doing it.
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much in the same way that we get annoyed with children and tablets today. And that ultimately, he was saying that kind of like in the future, and like what's coming is I mean, things like nanotechnology is already being developed, which is just incredible, like things like little scrubbers that can be living in your bloodstream, that can help to clear plaque in your arteries and stuff like that. You've got just just fantastic ideas. And like the idea that the computing power in like
28:47
I was trying to remember what the comparison was, but like the computing power that got people to the moon is in just like a fraction of what your iPhone has today, like just insane amount of computing power, like a computer that would have run something like the phones we've got today would have filled an entire warehouse. Not that long ago, like now it can be literally held in your hand.
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And so
29:42
is fast becoming obsolete, like people listen to them, or they have them on Kindles, which also have readers attach them typically. But ultimately, eventually, we will be able to, like we've got AI writing book reports that sound like a human did it. Like, we've got incredible things happening right now that are slowly but surely eradicating, not, not the need from a
30:10
human perspective, because I really believe that we're transitioning far too fast away from what humans actually need to be humans. We'll talk about that in a second. But like this idea that humans are evolving because we have imagination, that we're the only creature on the planet to have the imagination to change what being human looks like in the space of a generation. Like if you look at ants...
30:39
ants have behaved like ants for millennia, right? You don't see them now building shopping malls. Like we don't have cats that have also been around for thousands and thousands and thousands of years. Cats are still cats. Cats still just eat, make babies, lie all over your clothes. Like cats are just cats. Cats have not changed. If you had a cat as a pet 30 years ago and you had a
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it is still a cat, it is not going to be any different, right? So whereas humans, 30 years changes so much. And it's like this idea that the only difference is imagination. So being human inherently means that we are curious, that we're very capable, that we have this incredible imagination, that we're going to keep pushing stuff forward, no matter how much people want us to stop. But equally, the only things that we're suffering with today,
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that means that we've completely detached from what it's like to actually live a human animal existence, like that real connection to the ground, the spirituality. Like, not being funny, 35 years old, and I am developing some sort of arthritis or something in my scrawly thumb. Like, literally, it's actually getting stiff, it's actually getting achy, I'm actually losing some ability to grip.
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like seriously. And it's just like, I'm 35 years old and literally my smartphone has broken a thumb. Like I need to stop using the darn thing at all. Like it needs to go. Like it's really scary because it's just like, there's so much that changes so fast that our bodies can't keep up. And our needs can't change that fast. So like we can't just get used to the fact that we're living inside all the time and we never see daylight. We can't just get used to the idea that we're only going to be nutrition sachets and vitamins.
32:37
And also that's obviously like when people imagine what food might look like in 30 years time as a genetically modified mush that you just get out of a, like you press a button on the wall and it hits it for you. I mean, the thought of it's horrible, but actually, there's a really good chance that we will get there one day. But actually, that level of processed nutrition is never going to be as good for us. Because it's only been 30 years since processed food, like ultra processed food has been a thing. And it's already causing
33:06
obesity pandemics and epidemics, sorry, and all sorts of things, right? So like, we have to be so careful with what we do invent, and what we do come up with. But it takes people who are capable of thinking outside the box and actually having a really good picture of what it's like to be human, and to see real things that are happening, for them to be able to come up with the right solutions and to come up with things that actually serve our humaneness.
33:34
and allow us to enjoy that slowness and that connection with the earth and taking care of our planet and eating well and not harming things in the process, whatever it is, it takes really, really intelligent, intrinsically motivated people who care to make those solutions come to fruition. And yes, of course, some schoolchildren will come out the other end of the school system and actually...
34:00
have these dreams and ideas and want to go and do something about it. Of course they will. They're not being literally never taught about any of these important factors. Of course they're being taught about them. Yeah, no, of course. But they don't have as much time or headspace or that autonomy in their own learning to take the time to really dig into it further if it's not available to them. Like they've got to go find it. And that can feel very hard when you're constantly being told this is how you should learn.
34:30
and you ask an adult to teach it to you. And if there isn't one available, then I don't know what you do now, read a book. It just doesn't go off and be on your own with it. And it's very hard. Okay, this is a long kind of like really rambly one, this one. I feel like we're just like covered loads of different random thoughts. But this idea that we literally kind of, we can't imagine, I literally can't even begin to have imagined what we've got today.
34:57
when I was a child. Like there's no way that I would have had the concept of what it is. And so the ultimate point of what we were kind of hoping to get across in this is that no matter what you're spending time learning about with your children, because it's interesting and relevant to them and their culture, their environment, the things they experience day to day, the things that will affect them in their local community, the things that
35:25
will help them to go out into the world and to do something relevant, even what doesn't even feel relevant to us right now, but might become relevant in the future. Like, we have got to be aware of the fact that school curriculums are a base. They are just a base to fly from. And we can use them, yes. And we can keep an eye on them, yes. And we can care about maths and English and learning to read. I'm not saying don't teach your children to read just for the record.
35:54
But words are accessible in so many forms now. And so it's also, if they're not reading and you're stressing about it, don't stress. It's okay. Get them audio books. Like, do you know what? Just let them get on with it. Put the subtitles on the TV. Just allow them to live their lives. And literacy in whatever form literacy comes in in 20 years time, they will do it. It'll be fine. Like definitely support them.
36:23
if we've got dyslexia, et cetera, then get them support, of course. But don't stress it. Like there is so many different things that are going to change. It's just so fascinating. So just spend some time thinking about it and spend some time considering what it might look like for them, because actually every single person listening to this is going to be living in a different town, a different city, in a different environment with a different background, a different future in front of them, different experiences, different relationships like.
36:50
every single person's idea of what's relevant and what's interesting and what's important are very different. That's what's really amazing. That is what makes humans come up with all these incredible ideas is the fact that we're all living completely different lives. And so it's just a really fascinating one. I just thought this was a fun one to talk about today. Slightly lighter subject maybe. We'll twist and turn it to become dark. Don't worry. I'm just kidding.
37:18
We've found our way there a couple of times. I think it's hard, isn't it? It does, it reflects on both the difficult and the good, right? There's so much human change that's just incredible. Yeah. Thank you so much, guys, for listening again today. I hope you've enjoyed this lovely tangent-filled ramble. We've enjoyed ourselves anyway, so that's good.
37:42
If you want to come and follow us, please do. I am at Offroading Motherhood and Ashley is home So do come and follow us. Do please hit the rating button. We are actually ranking. I mean, who would have thunk it? We're ranking number one in Italy. So thank you to our Italian listeners. We know you're out there. I appreciate your support of Ashley. We take it as a big loving hug. So thank you so much.
38:12
and we got to 17th in the UK. So that wasn't bad, was it, in the education category? So we're quite pleased with that. Absolutely. We got a nice little email telling us that we're actually doing quite well. So I was just like, yay! So do please make sure you're still hitting the ranking button for us and giving us some reviews and just sharing it with anybody who you think will like it. So thanks so much for your support and we'll speak to you all again next week. Take care, bye. Bye.
